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vanished husband

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1 vanished husband on Thu Oct 29, 2015 12:28 am

mherv95


Arresto Menor
Hi,

my friend married some years ago an algerian national living in in australia (as mentioned on the marriage certificate).
The husband abandomned her as soon as he went back home, and stopped all communication with her.

We are not sure if the husband still lives at the address of the wedding certificate, or if he ever lived there, or if he is still in australia

She is married under the presidential act.

I am a French National myself, and of course i am unable to marry her to get her a visa for my country.

I am quite familiar with the french laws and courts, but of course i know not much about the laws and procedures running your country.

I first thought that there was motives to void the marriage ab initio, but none of the lawyers contacted accepted to file an annulation of the marriage, they all proposed an annulment.

they asked between 200K and 700K pesos. Due to the price of the service, we decided not to request an annulment.

Finally, we decided to file a divorce within the shariah court and we found a lawyer within the shariah court To file a divorce.

The lawyer sent a summon to the husband 2 times that was never responded, and he files a motion of divorce ex-parte

The shariah court dismissed the motion at the motive that it couldnt acquire the jurisdiction over the husband, and asked the office of foreign affairs to deliver the summon to the the husband via diplomatic ways.

The problem is that the lawyer didnt give many explanations to my friend, and didnt tell her how long this procedure could take, and what would be the consequences if the summon could not be delivered via diplomatic ways.

We also do not know if there is a way to accelerate the process

Any information related to your experience in that matter would be of a great help.

Best regards Marc

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2 Re: vanished husband on Thu Oct 29, 2015 4:44 am

Lunkan


Reclusion Perpetua
200 000 or more is common.

Perhaps possible alternatives:
1. How many years ago? If long enough it's possible the husband can be counted as dead by being absent long. If such get aproved, she will be counted as widow and can marry again.

2. If BOTH are muslims officialy, then it's much less hard to get annulment/divorse in Phils. I have heared of some cases where Filipinos have changed OFFICIAL religion because of that.

3. LAST alternative.
NOTE! You living together will be seen as a CRIME by BOTH of you by the Philippines, so both of you can get big trouble if you will go to the Philippines in the future...
Do you need to have a marriage valid in the Philippines? Otherwice you can get divorce and marry abroad and stay abroad for ever.
So it's a bad alternative.

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3 Re: vanished husband on Thu Oct 29, 2015 5:35 am

mherv95


Arresto Menor
thanks for your reply. but it doesnt reply the qestion. my question is limited to know
1) how long it takes to make a diplomatic delivery
2) in case the diplomatic delivery fails to find him, will the court acquire jusisdiction by default or is my friend stuck?
3) are there possibilities to speed the process

thanks in advance if you have replies on the informations that i am looking for

about the questions that you asked
1) not long enough to assume that he is dead
2) she is christian and i dont think that becoming muslim would ease the proces. If the court could acquire the jurisdiction on him, by having the proof the the summon was delivered, the divorce would be granted. This man will never file a reply, because if he did he would also have to pay her a pension as long as he stays married
3) we are not living together. I am living in my country and she lives in Philippines

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4 Re: vanished husband on Thu Oct 29, 2015 5:48 am

mherv95


Arresto Menor
Lunkan, reading your post again, i am not sure that i understood your last alternative :
there is no way that i could marry her in my country if she is still married in Philippines, because the wedding authorities here require a proof of non marriage before celebrating a wedding (cenomar).

Having a divorce is exactly what i try to get but for the moment the shariah court rejected it because the summon could be delivered to the husband.

If you have a option that gets her a divorce, i would be glad to hear about it

Regards Marc

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5 Re: vanished husband on Thu Oct 29, 2015 8:02 pm

Lunkan


Reclusion Perpetua
I don't know your questions about diplomatic delivery. The question is - Do you realy WANT to find him? Smile That can DELAY the solution much...
I believe it's 7 years without hearing from him, then he is counted as dead. So you DON'T want to hear from him Smile

"she is christian and i dont think that becoming muslim would ease the proces."
It would if the court BELIEVE she has become muslim too Smile

"by having the proof the the summon was delivered, the divorce would be granted."
Who have said that??? Living separated ISN'T counted as a divorce reason in the Philippines...

"Having a divorce is exactly what i try to get but for the moment the shariah court rejected it because the summon could be delivered to the husband."
Realy? I have heared BOTH need to be muslims to use that part of the law.

"If you have a option that gets her a divorce, i would be glad to hear about it"
I suppouse if the divorce is done NOT in the Philippines, that's enough to be allowed to marry ELSEWHERE than in Phils. For instance in HongKong.
Such divorce would be valid everywhere EXCEPT in the Philippines, so it can be problem if any of you go there after you have married abroad.

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6 Re: vanished husband on Thu Oct 29, 2015 9:06 pm

mherv95


Arresto Menor
Lunka, I advise you ro read the presidential decree 1083 of philippines. although the common law in the philippines doesnt acknowledge divorce but only an anulment, the muslim law acknowledges the divorce.
if the husband do not show up at home for more than 4 months
[ chapter 3 of the decree Art.  47.  Divorce by Ila. — Where a husband makes a vow to abstain from any carnal relations (ila) with his wife and keeps such ila for a period of not less than four months, she may be granted a decree of divorce by the court after due notice and hearing.]

Although my friend is not muslim, she was married within the presidential decree. Then she is entitled to have this divorce.

I also read in the decree that it should only be used when both spouses are muslim, and i thought that it would be one of the reasons to void the wedding. but all the lawyers i asked said  that the reason was not valid

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7 Re: vanished husband on Thu Oct 29, 2015 9:42 pm

Lunkan


Reclusion Perpetua
"I also read in the decree that it should only be used when both spouses are muslim, and i thought that it would be one of the reasons to void the wedding. but all the lawyers i asked said that the reason was not valid"
Well. Before you said this, I have only heared BOTH need to be muslim. Otherwice mixed marriages with ONE muslim would be EASY, which other cases DON'T seem to be...
IF that's true, why do you need contant with the muslim husband, if he has been away more than 4 months???

Rather many Filipino lawyers LIE to get customers...
(For instance many Filipino lawyers take much pay to make "solutions" for BUSINESS foreigners FOOLING them they get what they BELIEVE they have got, but such common "solutions" DON'T follow the "Anti-Dummy" law, so the foreigner will LOSE if such will be questioned in a court...)

So I believe it when I see what you say functions... Smile

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8 Re: vanished husband on Fri Oct 30, 2015 12:14 am

mherv95


Arresto Menor
i know what the lawyers are doing, this is why i tooke many advice. not only she was married within the presidential decree, but also her under age brother gave the consent instead of her mom. i thought that all this was reasons to void the wedding ab initio, but all the lawyers told me that it was not the case. 

These two points are not being seen as a problem by the shariah courts either.

Of course the lawyers might find more lucrative to make annulments, and probably they want easy cases and voiding a marriage ab initio is not so easy. they dont want to loose time for that.

Anyway, i am not in my country, and i cannot file a procedure if i do not find the lawyers to do it.

Even finding a lawyer in your country (specially  a shariah lawyer) is a nightmare because its easy to find the list of registered lawyers on internet, but its impossible to find how to contact them.

i dont need contact with the husband, but the court needs to have jurisdiction on him, and for that he needs to be summoned so that would be given a chance to him to react and to say what he wants. 

Of course this man will never intend to stay married with her, otherways he would not have abandonned her. He got married because muslims are not allowed to have sex outside marriage. so he didnt want to stand the culpability in front of his religion, but he never had the intention to have a marriage life with her, and as most philippines girls she lost her mind because he was a foreigner.

It was not very clever of her, but she thought that he would be faithful
 
Anyway i found a shariah lawyer who seems to be reliable, and the shariah court accepted the case, but i need info about what the procedure will become : how long does the diplomatic delivery takes, how to accelerate it, and what happens if after the delivery attempt, the husband could not be found.

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9 Re: vanished husband on Sun Nov 01, 2015 5:37 am

Lunkan


Reclusion Perpetua
mherv95 wrote:
Anyway i found a shariah lawyer who seems to be reliable, and the shariah court accepted the case, but i need info about what the procedure will become : how long does the diplomatic delivery takes, how to accelerate it, and what happens if after the delivery attempt, the husband could not be found.
Are you sure that will solve YOUR problem for a CATHOLIC, and not only the MUSLIM husband's?
A sharia lawyer perhaps don't know or just don't bother if it's valid for others than muslims...

As I wrote - in other cases I have heared of BOTH need to be muslims to solve the WHOLE problem...

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10 Re: vanished husband on Sun Nov 01, 2015 6:29 am

mherv95


Arresto Menor
unfortinately, i cannot post pictures on this forum. I recieved legal court orders from ther shariah court, There is not much doubt the motions were filed and the shariah court ordered the delivery of the summon to the husband by diplomatic ways. I cannot imagine a shariah respected lawyer forging such documents.
you must also know that although the presidential decree states that the marriages only concerns bot muslims, the real shariah law admits the mixed weddings when the woman is not muslim. the Shariah low for philippines is in constant evolution, and it seems it seems that the law has evolved beyond the presidential decree by means that was not disclosed to the public

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11 Re: vanished husband on Sun Nov 01, 2015 6:41 am

mherv95


Arresto Menor
you must also know that unless having to consider a motion over the validity of a wedding uniting a muslim and a catholic, a court has no reason to state about the validity of this wedding because it is valid in regard to the shariah law even if it didnt respect the presidential decree. As soon is it is registered and unless there is a judgement to declare it void the wedding is reputated valid
and i did everything i could to explore the voiding track. I even tried to push the the imam to organize me a void wedding for money in order to be able to sue him. the lawyer i tried to hire in this direction dissuaded me and told me that the weddding was not void, and he had money to make to take me as a client in this criminal case

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12 Re: vanished husband on Sun Nov 01, 2015 4:32 pm

Lunkan


Reclusion Perpetua
mherv95 wrote:unfortinately, i cannot post pictures on this forum. I recieved legal court orders from ther shariah court, There is not much doubt the motions were filed and the shariah court ordered the delivery of the summon to the husband by diplomatic ways. I cannot imagine a shariah respected lawyer forging such documents.
you must also know that although the presidential decree states that the marriages only concerns bot muslims, the real shariah law admits the mixed weddings when the woman is not muslim. the Shariah low for philippines is in constant evolution, and it seems it seems that the law has evolved beyond the presidential decree by means that was not disclosed to the public
I didn't question if the SHARIAH law find the woman too divorced
I doubt the PHILIPINE law concerning CATHOLICS will find her not married after the shariah court have said Yes...

Because why would the other cases otherwice talked about BOTH need to be muslims to solve their problems?...

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13 Re: vanished husband on Sun Nov 01, 2015 8:08 pm

mherv95


Arresto Menor
i am just telling you how the things are. applying what you said, why was the marriage reported by the NSO. For the same reasons, any shariah court order will be reported same. Dont expect the people working there to verify the validity of what they have to register. Otherwise the initial marriage of my friend would never have been registered as it states that her husband is moslim, she is catholic and they are married withing the presidential decree

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14 Re: vanished husband on Sun Nov 01, 2015 10:04 pm

Lunkan


Reclusion Perpetua
mherv95 wrote:i am just telling you how the things are.
But are you SURE they are as you believe? Smile
=Will the CATHOLIC woman REALY be counted as divorced by the PHILIPPINE law?

It don't suit to what I have heared about other caseS...
mherv95 wrote: why was the marriage reported by the NSO. For the same reasons, any shariah court order will be reported same. Dont expect the people working there to verify the validity of what they have to register. Otherwise the initial marriage of my friend would never have been registered as it states that her husband is moslim, she is catholic and they are married withing the presidential decree
Realy??

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15 Re: vanished husband on Sun Nov 01, 2015 10:19 pm

mherv95


Arresto Menor
it goes in the same logic : the wedding has been registered.

When i tried to have it voided exactly for the reason that she was catholic, but also that the only person who could have granted the wedding didnt do it, that they took instead her underage brother to witness it although at his age he shouldnt have been able to give any consent. 

On the paper, there was 3 reasons to void the wedding but all the lawyers i asked to void the marriage dissuaded me and told me that the wedding couldnt be voided ab initio regardless what the texts say.

so if the weddding is legal and therefore reported to the NSO, i see no reason why the NSO would not report a divorce ordered by the shariah court which is a legal authority in the philippines.

would the NSO refuse to register the divorce for the reason that the Shariah court wouldnt be a legal authority in the philippines then they would open the lead that the initial wedding is illegal and thus void.

Anyway this is the only choice i have, so i have to follow this lead. And if there would be some issues afterwards to register it, i will consider the problem when it happens not before it arises.

this is called being pragmatic.

being pragmatic too, i did not find any answer to my initial questions Sad any hint?

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16 Re: vanished husband Today at 6:40 pm

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