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Illegally Dismiss without prior notice

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1 Illegally Dismiss without prior notice on Sun Jul 10, 2016 7:47 pm

subzerophi


Arresto Menor
Problem: I work on a BPO company which is always hiring..I was illegally dismissed without proper notice and due to efficiency/productivity percentage score or simply I did not reach the desired quota..I was not given ample time or notice that I would be terminated..I even report to work on that day and then I was called by my manager that my service is already terminated then my manager gave me the termination notice and was asked to leave and never came back..When my manager gave me the termination notice she told me that I am terminated in her department but not in the company and I could reapply after 2 months and told me I could not receive a separation pay only my last pay..I was not given 30 days notice and they even not put the reason on the termination letter why I was terminated..I was in this company for almost 5 yrs and 7 months and I'm regular employee..

Scenario: I already file a case to NLRC..We weren't able to settle in SENA and in the ELA office..Since it wasn't settle, the Labor Arbiter ask us to simultaneously pass a position paper..According to the representative of the respondent I was terminated and they insist they would not pay me a separation pay because they follow the procedure according to Labor Code..I was given verbal warning, then written warning then 1 day suspension then admin hearing and lastly immediate termination.

Question: 1.) I wasn't able to pass the productive percentage score,  is it already ground for termination? It is in their Company Code of Conduct but not in the labor code..
              2.) they follow the procedure but I wasn't given 30 days notice prior to termination..Are they doing the right thing or I was illegally dismissed?
               3.) Since it is on their Company Code of Conduct and according to them they follow the procedure that why I am not entitled to a separation pay or any payment..Are they correct?
               4.) After filing a position paper what would be the next step?
               5.) Do I have a probable percentage to win these case?

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2 Re: Illegally Dismiss without prior notice on Sun Jul 10, 2016 8:04 pm

council


Reclusion Perpetua
1. They said you were given VW, WW, Suspension then termination after admin hearing - was this correct? If so then they have observed due process already.

2. Termination for policy violations is generally done immediately when the decision is made. It would not be in the company's interest to let an employee remain for even a few days after telling them that they would be terminated. That could lead to possible sabotage and other undesirable acts by the employee while on the premises.

3. Yes

4. Wait for decision.

5. Maybe not.

Strange thing though is that statement about being terminated from the account but not the company - so therefore you should actually still have work. Have you discussed that statement with your HR?

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3 Re: Illegally Dismiss without prior notice on Sun Jul 10, 2016 8:41 pm

council


Reclusion Perpetua
subzerophi wrote:
Question: 1.) I wasn't able to pass the productive percentage score,  is it already ground for termination? It is in their Company Code of Conduct but not in the labor code..

Not everything is in the labor code. It is a general overview and cannot specifically cover any or all scenarios.

The information in the code of conduct (and employment contract) are procedures in addition to those in the LC.

For not passing your metrics despite warnings and other sanctions given, your employment was terminated.

The following provision of the LC covers it -

ART. 282. Termination by employer. - An employer may terminate an employment for any of the following causes:

=== cut ===

(b) Gross and habitual neglect by the employee of his duties;

=== cut ===

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4 Re: Illegally Dismiss without prior notice on Sun Jul 10, 2016 8:51 pm

subzerophi


Arresto Menor
council wrote:
Strange thing though is that statement about being terminated from the account but not the company - so therefore you should actually still have work. Have you discussed that statement with your HR?

That is also the strange thing for me..I'm terminated in her account but not in the company..I even ask my manager if I'm on floating status or transfer to another account..She only told me that I am not productive in her account but maybe productive in another account but need to wait for 2 months before reapplying..A day after I was terminated I go to the HR office and ask my status in the company and the HR incharge told me that my status is reapply but after 2 months pa..Then I ask the HR why they need to terminated me and the HR told me that it was my manager decision and not the company decision and even told me not to file a case..

Another strange thing is before they change the code of conduct regarding Efficiency Rating when you fail they just transfer us to another account..Does failing in a percentage passing rate according to company rules constitute to a termination when they are lots of account and doing the same jobs?

1.) If ever a lose these case Do I have to pay the respondent?

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5 Re: Illegally Dismiss without prior notice on Sun Jul 10, 2016 8:59 pm

council


Reclusion Perpetua
Your manager and HR don't seem to understand the concept of termination if they mention having to re-apply after a few months.

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6 Re: Illegally Dismiss without prior notice on Sun Jul 10, 2016 9:44 pm

subzerophi


Arresto Menor
council wrote:Your manager and HR don't seem to understand the concept of termination if they mention having to re-apply after a few months.

Yan ang dahilan kung bakit ako ng file ng case kasi terminated ako pero re-apply ang status ko tapos regular employee na ako..Bat pa tinerminated nila ako kung pwede naman mag reapply?Ang kutob ko bat re-apply ang status ko sa company kasi takot sila magbayad ng separation pay kung terminated ako..

Tanong ko lang kung sakaling talo ako sa kaso mababayad ba ako sa kanila? Ano ang mangyari kung magback out ako sa kaso?

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7 Re: Illegally Dismiss without prior notice on Sun Jul 10, 2016 9:49 pm

lukekyle


Reclusion Perpetua
it sounds to me that they placed you on floating status and not really terminated. i think the hr is using the wrong terminology

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8 Re: Illegally Dismiss without prior notice on Sun Jul 10, 2016 9:50 pm

lukekyle


Reclusion Perpetua
but in either case as long as they followed procedure whether they terminated you or placed you on floating status they dont have to pay you separation

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9 Re: Illegally Dismiss without prior notice on Sun Jul 10, 2016 9:52 pm

lukekyle


Reclusion Perpetua
they only need to notify you 30 days prior if the reason for termination is redundancy or cessation of business

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10 Re: Illegally Dismiss without prior notice on Sun Jul 10, 2016 10:47 pm

udmlaw


Reclusion Temporal

Another strange thing is before they change the code of conduct regarding Efficiency Rating when you fail they just transfer us to another account..Does failing in a percentage passing rate according to company rules constitute to a termination when they are lots of account and doing the same jobs?

Yep. Ground: failure to comply with reasonable employment standards. This is commonly used for probationary emloyees or contract-based employees. Excuse lang yung sinasabi na hindi ka tanggal and you can re-apply. Why the need to re-apply if you were not terminated? Play of words lang.

1.) If ever a lose these case Do I have to pay the respondent? Will you pay your employer if you lose your case? Nope. But theycan definitely file a case against you as well.

Better get a lawyer who you can talk to face to face. All these are just OPINIONS and might not be absolute as each case is different.

Good luck

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11 Re: Illegally Dismiss without prior notice on Mon Jul 11, 2016 11:46 am

subzerophi


Arresto Menor
lukekyle wrote:it sounds to me that they placed you on floating status and not really terminated. i think the hr is using the wrong terminology

According to the manager I was terminated in her account but the HR place me on a reapply status..According to the HR there is no such thing as floating status since they are lots of works to do..

lukekyle wrote:but in either case as long as they followed procedure whether they terminated you or placed you on floating status they dont have to pay you separation

What if they followed the procedure but I don't have a copy of them..I only have the admin hearing and the termination paper..The main issue why I was terminated because of the Efficiency/Productive Rating..Noted that in some account some manager find a way that their team would not fail in the Efficiency Rating while my manager find a way na pahirapan ang kanyang tauhan..Could I use it as bases in my allegation?

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12 Re: Illegally Dismiss without prior notice on Mon Jul 11, 2016 11:54 am

subzerophi


Arresto Menor
udmlaw wrote:
Yep. Ground: failure to comply with reasonable employment standards. This is commonly used for probationary emloyees or contract-based employees. Excuse lang yung sinasabi na hindi ka tanggal and you can re-apply. Why the need to re-apply if you were  not terminated? Play of words lang.

I'm a regular employee and working in them for 5yrs and 7 months..Before they change the formula in getting the Efficiency Rating I always pass the Efficiency and even have an award for that..And some of my co-workers in the account that fail the Efficiency rating before they change the formula was just transfer to other account..Kaya hindi ako nag expect the materminate kasi ang buong akala ko matransfer lng ako to other account..Pero hindi ko pa rin pinabayaan ang Efficiency Rating ko kaya lng hindi ko lang talaga naabot ang 80% passing rate nila kasi sa hirap ng account namin..Pinaglalaban ko lng na mali ang pagterminated nila sa akin kasi dapat pwede naman ako matransfer to other account considering that it happens before..

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13 Re: Illegally Dismiss without prior notice on Mon Jul 11, 2016 12:01 pm

lukekyle


Reclusion Perpetua
If you can prove bias, pwede yun grounds to contest your termination. But more of try to find supporting witnesses if merong subjective part yung rating system. For example "works well with others" try to find teamates na hindi na terminate that would vouch that you are a gem to work with. Pero di mo pwedeng gawin excuse yung "bagsak din yung iba, dinaya lang nila"

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14 Re: Illegally Dismiss without prior notice on Tue Jul 12, 2016 12:32 am

udmlaw


Reclusion Temporal
subzerophi wrote:
udmlaw wrote:
Yep. Ground: failure to comply with reasonable employment standards. This is commonly used for probationary emloyees or contract-based employees. Excuse lang yung sinasabi na hindi ka tanggal and you can re-apply. Why the need to re-apply if you were  not terminated? Play of words lang.

I'm a regular employee and working in them for 5yrs and 7 months..Before they change the formula in getting the Efficiency Rating I always pass the Efficiency and even have an award for that..And some of my co-workers in the account that fail the Efficiency rating before they change the formula was just transfer to other account..Kaya hindi ako nag expect the materminate kasi ang buong akala ko matransfer lng ako to other account..Pero hindi ko pa rin pinabayaan ang Efficiency Rating ko kaya lng hindi ko lang talaga naabot ang 80% passing rate nila kasi sa hirap ng account namin..Pinaglalaban ko lng na mali ang pagterminated nila sa akin kasi dapat pwede naman ako matransfer to other account considering that it happens before..

I am sorry. I wasn't questioning your nature of employment. I was just saying normally these are the reasons used. So there is this possibility that notwithstanding you being a regular employee, this will be their reason.


Read this:

http://sc.judiciary.gov.ph/jurisprudence/2012/april2012/185829.htm

I dont know how to link. There is a portion of this case about sales quota. Of course this is not a call center case but the employee here won so you might get an idea how to argue.

As to the computations, that will be very hard to argue and prove. Changing the basis for evaluation is a management prerogative.

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15 Re: Illegally Dismiss without prior notice on Tue Jul 12, 2016 12:36 am

udmlaw


Reclusion Temporal
lukekyle wrote:If you can prove bias, pwede yun grounds to contest your termination.  But more of try to find supporting witnesses if merong subjective part yung rating system.  For example "works well with others"  try to find teamates na hindi na terminate that would vouch that you are a gem to work with.  Pero di mo pwedeng gawin excuse yung "bagsak din yung iba, dinaya lang nila"

This is true. Ang hirap kapag may rating system si employer. Almost always hindi papakialaman ng NLRC yung rating at ia-assume nila na tama yung company rating. I tried presenting awards and certifications na din dati pero wala. Maybe in SC baka ma-convince sila... Pero kasi question of fact iyon at baka hinid pakialaman din ng SC.

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