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Dismissal Due to Insubordination

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1 Dismissal Due to Insubordination on Tue Oct 03, 2017 1:11 pm

christiantroy25


Arresto Menor
I am a Supervisor from one of the biggest call centers in the Philippines. I have been with the company for more than 11 years now. I, along with a couple of my fellow Supervisors, have been threatened with dismissal for refusing to acknowledge a policy rolled out by top management. Said policy states that we be held liable for every violation an agent commits on a particular guideline. This is without regard for the root cause of the violation but as the Supervisor of the guilty agent, we are automatically a party to the said infraction and might also be dismissed given a certain total number of violations from our team. Does our case have merit as we plan to file case with NLRC in case we get terminated for insubordination?

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2 Re: Dismissal Due to Insubordination on Tue Oct 03, 2017 1:33 pm

lukekyle


Reclusion Perpetua
they are threatening you with dismissal because you won't sign that you accept the new policy?

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3 Re: Dismissal Due to Insubordination on Tue Oct 03, 2017 1:35 pm

christiantroy25


Arresto Menor
Yes lukekyle. Me and 2 other Supervisors.

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4 Re: Dismissal Due to Insubordination on Tue Oct 03, 2017 1:41 pm

lukekyle


Reclusion Perpetua
you do realize that whether you acknowledge it or not, the fact that your employer has already informed you of said policy, then it is already in place.  

Whether or not the policy can be questioned is not affected by your "acknowledgment"

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5 Re: Dismissal Due to Insubordination on Tue Oct 03, 2017 1:44 pm

lukekyle


Reclusion Perpetua
in my opinion that would be illegal dismissal. If i were them, i would just carry out said policy and terminate you based on the new metrics that they issued. I dont find it unreasonable that as supervisors the performance or violations of the group you supervise be considered your own

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6 Re: Dismissal Due to Insubordination on Tue Oct 03, 2017 1:58 pm

christiantroy25


Arresto Menor
Point taken. Not unreasonable but debatable depending on the circumstances. There are certain things one cannot control.

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7 Re: Dismissal Due to Insubordination on Tue Oct 03, 2017 2:36 pm

lukekyle


Reclusion Perpetua
yes that is true.  In my opinion you guys are just creating unnecessary friction between yourselves and top management. Whether you acknowledge it or not, if unreasonable yung circumstances then you can still complain if na dismiss ka because of it.

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8 Re: Dismissal Due to Insubordination on Tue Oct 03, 2017 2:44 pm

christiantroy25


Arresto Menor
If that is the case Sir LukeKyle, why do you think they are pressuring us to acknowledge, if it doesn't really matter if we do or do not. Will we not have a better case, if we had already initially objected to it via refusing to acknowledge, prior to it's effectivity? What is the importance of acknowledgement anyway?

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9 Re: Dismissal Due to Insubordination on Tue Oct 03, 2017 3:30 pm

lukekyle


Reclusion Perpetua
what exactly do you mean by acknowledge ba? are they asking you to read it out loud while being videotaped?
are they merely asking you to signify that nabasa nyo yung memo and are aware of the said policy?

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10 Re: Dismissal Due to Insubordination on Tue Oct 03, 2017 3:39 pm

mikos23


Reclusion Perpetua
Christian,

Who is pressuring you to acknowledge the memo? anyway, usually its for documentation purpose that the you have read, become aware and understand the new policy. It doesn't matter if you agree with it or not. The reason that they are pressuring you is because they need to report to the upper management that they have disseminated the policy to everyone.

Btw, if you refuse "acknowledging" the policy, it could lead to a more serious consequences.

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11 Re: Dismissal Due to Insubordination on Tue Oct 03, 2017 4:14 pm

cc-m


Arresto Menor
It is a management prerogative. From time to time employer needs to revised or add up certain new policies.

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12 Re: Dismissal Due to Insubordination on Tue Oct 03, 2017 4:22 pm

christiantroy25


Arresto Menor
My take on it Sir LukeKyle is that they think that acknowledging that I have read it is equivalent to agreeing with it that's why they are so keen on having us acknowledge the policy.

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13 Re: Dismissal Due to Insubordination on Tue Oct 03, 2017 4:25 pm

christiantroy25


Arresto Menor
@ Mikos, our managers are pressuring us to acknowledge. There's even a deadline for the acknowledgement.

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14 Re: Dismissal Due to Insubordination on Tue Oct 03, 2017 4:42 pm

christiantroy25


Arresto Menor
@Mikos, LukeKyle, cc-m
Sirs, just want to clarify this. So legally, acknowledging does not necessarily mean that we are agreeing to a certain policy. It just means that we have been made aware and we understand the policy. This cannot be held against us when we file a complaint (in case we get terminated as per conditions of the policy) using the argument that since we have "acknowledged" the policy then we "agree" to it.
This is how the people at my office see it. Even the managers.

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15 Re: Dismissal Due to Insubordination on Tue Oct 03, 2017 4:46 pm

Patok


Reclusion Perpetua
they are not asking you to agree.. all they are asking is for you to acknowledged that you have received/read the memo.

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16 Re: Dismissal Due to Insubordination on Tue Oct 03, 2017 6:15 pm

christiantroy25


Arresto Menor
Just recalled, does it make any difference if the communication has a header, Statement of Undertaking ?

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17 Re: Dismissal Due to Insubordination on Tue Oct 03, 2017 9:28 pm

mikos23


Reclusion Perpetua
yes there is a difference. Statement of undertaking is a letter with an assurance that you will fulfill an obligation that you agreed on, which is stated in the letter.

it is much like a conforme, you will conform with what is stated on what you signed.

so once you signed / acknowledge this you agree to it.

Now lets look at it this way, making and issuing a policy is management prerogative. You as a supervisor, no matter if you agree to it or not, are bound to implement it. if you signed it, there will be no problem. but if you don't sign it, it will send a wrong signal to management that you oppose to them. Better think about this cause this will affect your career in that company.

Now, another way to look at it. The policy they are releasing is not something new.
You as a supervisor is a part of managerial employee. It is inherent to a supervisor, to be responsible to people in those care. You are there to supervise their work and implement management decision. Your staff are your responsibility and what ever happens you are also part to blame if anything goes wrong because they are your responsibility.

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18 Re: Dismissal Due to Insubordination on Wed Oct 04, 2017 12:27 am

lukekyle


Reclusion Perpetua
think of it this way, if the policy is fair or reasonable or lawful, even if youboppose it you will still be bound by it. if it is unlawful or judeged to be oppressive even if you “agree” with it you can still complain. if all else fails try to get DOLE’s opinion on the particular policy. but in my opinion you are creating problems where there need not be any.
just wait till there is a specific case where you are dismissed unfairly because of this policy then file a complaint

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19 Re: Dismissal Due to Insubordination on Wed Oct 04, 2017 12:03 pm

christiantroy25


Arresto Menor
Thank you for the advice everyone

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20 Re: Dismissal Due to Insubordination on Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:27 pm

cc-m


Arresto Menor
Don't forget to drop by here again, and let us know how it turns out.

Cheers!

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21 Re: Dismissal Due to Insubordination on Sat Oct 14, 2017 12:17 pm

arnoldventura


Prision Correccional
Read this, bro. Just for your own consumption. https://www.alburovillanueva.com/dismissal-termination-employment

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22 Re: Dismissal Due to Insubordination on Sat Oct 14, 2017 12:33 pm

christiantroy25


Arresto Menor
Thanks Sir Arnold!
Update: I was formally charged with Insubordination and Breach of Trust two weeks ago. There were two of us who were charged. NTEs were submitted and disciplinary hearings were held last week. We are still waiting for the results.

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